Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
02/06/2017 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB40 | |
| HB6 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 40 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 6 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HB 40-TRAPPING NEAR PUBLIC TRAILS
1:06:22 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the first order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 40, "An Act prohibiting and providing
penalties and civil remedies for trapping within 200 feet of
certain public facilities, areas, and trails; and providing for
an effective date."
1:07:37 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for
HB 40, Version 30-LS0168\U, Nauman/Bullard, 2/6/17 [as the
working document].
1:08:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO objected for discussion purposes.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON passed the gavel to Co-Chair Tarr.
1:08:30 PM
The committee took an at ease from 1:08 p.m. to 1:09 p.m.
1:10:10 PM
MEGAN ROWE, Staff, Representative Andy Josephson, Alaska State
Legislature, speaking on behalf of Representative Josephson,
sponsor, provided a summary of changes made by the committee
substitute (CS) for HB 40, Version U. The original version,
Version D, was incorrectly labeled as a sponsor substitute, so
changes in Version D and Version O were redrafted as CSHB 40,
Version U. Version U adds Section 1, which imposes a
requirement that a tag issued by the Alaska Department of Fish &
Game (ADF&G) be affixed to a trap, and adds a violation penalty
provision. The second change is that the bill more narrowly
defines areas near which people cannot place traps to within 200
feet of a campsite, recreational beach, roadside rest, scenic
site or other public facility or area, and a public trail to
those that are developed or improved by public funds. Also,
Version U removes a reference to the statute that created all
state parks, and thus restricted trapping in all state parks.
She stated the intent of the bill is to narrow the areas where
trappers cannot trap to places that are frequently peopled and
to places that the government has maintained, developed, and
improved. The bill leaves public land areas where trappers have
made trails, and trails that have not been improved by the
government, still free for trapping within 200 feet.
CO-CHAIR TARR directed attention to materials found in the
committee packet further describing the aforementioned changes.
1:13:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO removed his objection, and pointed out
that the committee is adopting a committee substitute without
hearing the original bill.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH asked for clarification of the distinction
between a committee substitute and a sponsor substitute.
CO-CHAIR TARR explained that changes in a bill made by a
committee substitute become the working document. This is not
an endorsement, and after a motion is made to move the bill out
of committee, members can vote as they wish.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH expressed his interest in learning whether
the problem addressed by the bill is a recurring problem in
District 17 and other parts of Anchorage.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked if permission from the original
sponsor is required prior to drafting a committee substitute.
CO-CHAIR TARR responded that the bill sponsor is Representative
Josephson, who supports the committee substitute.
1:15:35 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON informed the committee he represents 17,000
residents of Anchorage, however, as a member of the committee
and of the legislature, he is compelled to deal with issues from
all over the state. Although one may believe that the sponsor
of the bill would be active with dog or pet organizations, this
is untrue; in fact, the reason he has sponsored the bill is due
to the many documented instances throughout Alaska - in the last
four to five years - of animals other than the target species
caught in traps, and concerns for potential harm to human life.
The bill is supported by thousands, as evidenced by a Matanuska-
Susitna (Mat-Su) Valley petition signed by 3,500 that would
remove two trails [from trapping]. Mat-Su has experienced
population growth and there is an outcry supported by three
members of the Mat-Su Borough Assembly to try to protect
domestic animals, children, snow machine riders, and sled dog
teams. The problem is unresolved because other than in the
Fairbanks North Star Borough, there have been no adequate
compromises. Representative Josephson related his own
experience before the Board of Game (BOG), ADF&G, is that a
proposal offered to remedy this problem before BOG will be
unsuccessful as the board does not represent the diverse
interests of Alaskans, but represents the consumptive interests
of outdoorsmen, and he provided an example. He agreed trapping
can be the purview of BOG, but it is also the purview of the
legislature. The bill requires that in a described public trail
and related places, one cannot have a trap that can kill a dog -
he acknowledged that there are traps that don't kill dogs -
within 200 feet. Often when dogs are trapped, there is a
violation of leash laws; however, leash laws vary by geography,
in relation to electronic collars, and for working animals in
training. Further, the punishment for the violation of a lease
law is not the dog's death.
1:23:28 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON recalled relevant case law and gave an
example. He cautioned the issue is getting more intense,
particularly in Mat-Su. The bill requires traps to be moved off
of public trails for 200 feet, and he suggested a forthcoming
amendment would include school property. He concluded the
trapping community will continue to use 99 plus percent of the
opportunity available and the public would be better protected.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH asked whether identification tags have ever
been required on traps - in a manner similar to crab pots - and
suggested that ADF&G could impose regulations to do so.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON expressed his belief ADF&G holds statutory
authority, but BOG "has currently stripped away that
requirement." Opponents to the bill may believe dog walkers
would deliberately move a trap so it merits sanction, or
disgruntled dog owners would call ADF&G and harass trappers.
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE suggested ordinances addressing this
issue are better suited at a local, borough, or municipal level
rather than statewide legislation which would have implications
for all districts.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON agreed the language of the bill could be
improved to satisfy both interests. In the Fairbanks North Star
Borough, traps must be marked, but the trails would have to be
developed and improved by government. He opined that boroughs
have not been responsive to media coverage on this issue, and
BOG will not seriously consider a non-consumptive concern. He
agreed trapping is part of the state's heritage and culture;
however, people need a remedy.
1:31:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO asked to review [Alaska Statutes] Title
29 related to homerule, first class, and second class municipal
governments to better understand municipalities' abilities to
respond.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON referred to legal memoranda supplied by the
Mat-Su Borough attorney stating that the borough has no
authority to issue regulations in this regard [memoranda not
provided]. He offered to provide an analysis on the rules in
Anchorage, and the differences between municipalities and
boroughs.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted "the Mat-Su Borough did have this
before them and voted. It did not pass." She expressed her
concern about seeking a statewide solution to a local problem;
populated areas located near wilderness invite this type of
conflict. Her personal experience is the identification of
traps is a separate issue, and also one that would require a
fiscal note to implement a registry system.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON said there may be a way to fashion the bill
to satisfy different types of areas in the state. Regarding a
fiscal note, the bill requires the tags to be self-funded, thus
a small fee would fund the resources needed by ADF&G.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO directed attention to [page 2, lines 6
through 10] Section 2, paragraph 1, identifies within "200 feet
[of] a developed or improved campsite." He pointed out there
are registered guides who hold Department of Natural Resources
(DNR) permits for developed campsites well beyond the road
system that would be covered by this definition. Also, scenic
sites in Alaska are too numerous to list and therefore the
definition is too broad.
1:38:11 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON explained that scenic sites are previously
defined in law. Regarding "off system campsites of a guide,"
the bill is focused on developed and improved public facilities
such as accessible sites near Russian Creek or Cooper Landing,
which are completely open to trapping. In further response to
Representative Talerico, he agreed that the language as
currently written may not be accurate.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked what proportion of the
aforementioned incidents involved leg-hold traps.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON responded the majority are leg-hold, foot-
hold, conibear, and snare traps that are not box traps to keep
the animal alive. Some are crushing devices. In further
response to Representative Parish, he said none of the incidents
involved noose traps.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH expressed his concern with the "urban/rural
divide" in which those living in urban areas seek to change the
way others live in rural Alaska. He suggested working with
ADF&G to identify traps, and said this is not a concern in South
Anchorage. Representative Birch cautioned the bill would affect
a subsistence lifestyle in rural parts of the state.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON observed South Anchorage abuts Chugach State
Park, where the issue has surfaced. He acknowledged the
difficulty defining subsistence, as the Mat-Su and Kenai areas
are both urban and rural. Research into this issue revealed
that 10 years ago, and perhaps still, this issue was seen as a
blemish on good, ethical, trapping, and he said a trapping group
in Delta Junction is supportive of portions of the bill.
1:43:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH noted poor behavior is widespread and said
he is interested in hearing from all viewpoints.
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE stated subsistence trapping is a way of
life in his, and other, prime trapping areas and he cautioned
against adding an extra burden for trappers at licensing. He
expressed his interest in hearing testimony from BOG as it has
been working on this issue for about 10 years.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON spoke of her personal experience trapping
and said that "a trap being set so close to a trail, it goes
against everything I was ever taught about ... trapping and
things like that." She noted identification tags on traps can
be difficult and requested further information on the actions
taken by the Mat-Su Borough, the powers held by local
government, and pertinent testimony from ADF&G.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired as to whether trapping and
affected sportsman's groups have offered, or been approached to
offer, solutions.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON related one question by trappers is whether
new trails made to access traps would be included in the scope
of the bill. The answer is no, because the new trails would not
be state or locally maintained public trails. In Kenai, groups
have tried to resolve the issue by self-policing and through
signage but the compromise failed, therefore, the dog owner user
group's view is a law is needed because the problem is
ubiquitous.
1:51:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said he is searching for consensus on
how to write a law amongst all of the user groups.
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE suggested rather than an attempt at a
statewide resolution, ADF&G use game management units to act
specifically with municipalities and boroughs for local
management.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opined 10 or 15 years ago, ADF&G and BOG were
more sympathetic to the "non-consumptive side."
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON pointed out that people steal traps and
game. She inquired as to how ADF&G would implement the
identification process and determine ownership.
1:54:50 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR opened invited testimony on HB 40.
CO-CHAIR TARR returned the gavel to Co-Chair Josephson.
1:55:14 PM
KEN GREEN informed the committee he is involved in the trapping
issue because his dogs were caught in traps on a beach near a
town. The issue will take a lot of detailed work to progress.
Speaking from his personal experience, the Alaska Trappers
Association (ATA) and BOG have sidestepped the issue for many
years. Mr. Green submitted proposals to BOG with the intent to
narrow the scope and reach a compromise with local trapping
interests; however, his proposal was not heard. He restated
there is no cooperation from ATA and during multiple meetings,
BOG would not hear proposals, including discussion about using
smaller traps close to town. Further, if a proposal is taken to
BOG it can be rejected without debate or work toward a
compromise, and he provided an example. Mr. Green opined the
only approach to solve the problems is HB 40. He cautioned
there will be more numerous and egregious conflicts in the
future and the two opposing sides must be brought together.
2:04:25 PM
MR. GREEN, in response to Co-Chair Josephson, said his puppy was
caught in a trap on Waikiki Beach and he kept the trap; another
dog was caught in a snare close to town, and another under a
powerline. He then formed a group in Cooper Landing called
Footloose Alaskans that proposed to BOG 250-foot setbacks on
certain trails, which encompassed a large area. As a result,
signage was placed informing users trapping was not recommended
in certain areas.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH asked whether the witness has approached
local government to identify areas.
MR. GREEN said he went to a [Kenai Peninsula] Borough meeting in
Soldotna, where members were unaware of the problem, and was
told there was nothing they could do.
2:12:19 PM
LYNN MITCHELL, President, Alaska Safe Trails, informed the
committee her organization has been advocating for changes
regarding trapping in highly populated areas and along high use
recreational trails for about four years. In response to Co-
Chair Josephson, she said the Mat-Su Borough Assembly has not
made a decision on traps near trails at this time. Although her
organization presented petitions to the assembly approximately
one year ago related to two popular trails and school property,
it has made no presentation to the assembly. In further
response to Co-Chair Josephson, she said three of seven assembly
members have expressed sympathy to her organization's position.
Ms. Mitchell opined the issue must be solved legislatively on a
state level because incidents continue to be reported that local
recreational trails are being used as trap lines, against ADF&G
guidelines. She said residents are unaware of the frequency of
these incidents; in fact, the Mat-Su animal shelter has two
spaces for animals in traps. Due to the increase in population,
trail use has increased, as have encounters. Unethical trappers
are "lazy" and incidents are happening throughout the state
along trails that are established for recreational uses such as
hiking and skiing. Ms. Mitchell gave an example. She advised
0.4 percent of the state's population is controlling 99.6
percent of the use of public land in winter. A brochure
distributed by ADF&G advises residents to leave an area if a
trap line is encountered; in fact, hikers with pets are
encouraged to pack rope, wire, zip-ties and other equipment
necessary to save a dog or a person from a trap.
2:20:28 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON added that ADF&G recommends the
aforementioned precautions and teaches pet owners how to free a
pet from a trap.
MS. MITCHELL opined most pet owners would not be able to save a
pet from a conibear trap or a snare. She said a leash law is no
defense because there is no statewide leash law, with the
exception of some areas of state parks; in addition, electronic
collars are legal. Further, search and rescue, hunting, and
sled dogs are exceptions to a leash law and have been trapped.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted the bill may have financial
implications and asked "Is anyone really making a living
trapping by the trails in the valley or is it just hobby
trapping?
MS. MITCHELL said the code of ethics [document not provided] for
trapping directs that trapping should be concentrated in areas
where animals are overabundant for the supporting habitat, and
opined this is not applicable to an urban trail system.
Speaking from her experience as a certified public accountant,
she said she lost clients after forming Alaska Safe Trails and
concluded the former clients are trappers who do not claim
income thus trapping is not for subsistence purposes in urban
areas. In the last 19 years, BOG has received 88 proposals for
setbacks on trails and none have passed.
2:28:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH said he has a license to trap which he
keeps as an option. His concern is the initiative may be
directed at eliminating trapping; in addition, highly populated
areas have a form of local governance that is attuned to issues
within its community.
CO-CHAIR TARR questioned whether pertinent requirements on
federal public land are effective.
MS. MITCHELL was unaware of requirements on federal public land.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired as to the stance of the Mat-Su
Borough Assembly.
MS. MITCHELL said the Alaska Trappers Association (ATA) in
Fairbanks intervenes in local affairs and read from a document
[document not provided].
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, in response to Representative Rauscher, said
he has been told the Mat-Su Borough could not act, but only the
state could intervene, and offered to research [Alaska Statutes]
Title 29.
2:34:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE read from a document found in the
committee packet dated 1/8/17, as follows:
As suburbia replaces frontier, Mat-Su considers
restricting trapping for the first time ... numerous
Alaska towns and cities already restrict trapping in
some way including Anchorage, Valdez, Fairbanks, and
Juneau, but efforts to address trail conflicts outside
city limits have run into opposition around the state.
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE suggested other viewpoints are to make
local control the option.
MS. MITCHELL pointed out statewide legislation creates
uniformity. For example, the state took the step to consider
the welfare of pets during a divorce.
2:37:13 PM
PAT O'BRIEN informed the committee she has lived in Alaska for
almost 50 years in Hoonah and Juneau. Last year she presented a
proposal to BOG which was rejected. The proposal included a
200-foot setback [near trails] similar to the bill. Ms. O'Brien
referred to the March 2016, BOG meeting at which Juneau's rule
for trapping tags was removed and at which Proposal 78 by the
Alaska Trappers Association was passed. Proposal 78 proposed
removal of all requirements for identification tags on traps and
snares, and a statement of legislative intent in opposition to
future implementation of any regulations requiring trap
identification tags.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked for clarification that Juneau had a
local policy which a statewide commission overrode, and also on
the legislative statement.
MS. O'BRIEN said Proposal 78 read in part as follows [document
not provided]:
Legislative intent in opposition to future
implementation of any regulation that would require
trap ID tags.
MS. O'BRIEN spoke in support of CSHB 40 and cautioned there will
be a lot of opposition from trappers. She read further from
Proposal 78 related to Section 1 of the bill, and stated during
a meeting of the local advisory committee to BOG a crab
fisherman noted crab pots are required to have identification
(ID) tags. She recalled recently in Juneau traps were placed
near buildings in Auke Bay but because there was an ID tag, the
trapper was caught, and she expressed her support of ID tags on
traps. Finally, she opined trappers are concerned about the
potential for uneven enforcement, which is a concern about all
laws and regulations. Turning to Section 2, Ms. O'Brien said
Section 2 of the bill is well-crafted and directs ADF&G to
further identify areas where trapping is prohibited. As an
aside, she advised 200 feet is about 40 paces for an average
person. She expressed her support for Section 2, subsection
(c), and related a personal experience of dogs attracted to
baited traps. She closed, noting that the ADF&G Trapping
Regulations booklet [document not provided] advises trappers to
minimize conflict between trappers and other users by avoiding
high recreational use areas; however, the trappers' code of
ethics [document not provided] does not contain a like
provision.
2:45:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH inquired whether the use of radio frequency
(RF) tags, which allow remote monitoring, has been considered.
He expressed his support for tagging traps.
MS. O'BRIEN agreed RF tags are a great idea, but are very
expensive.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON questioned whether a trapper would mark a
certain number on each trap, or if individual traps would be
registered.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opined a tag would be purchased for each trap
which would correlate with the owner of the trap.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON cautioned purchasing an ID tag for each
trap would be more complicated.
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE expressed his interest in learning how
Anchorage and other cities accomplished tagging. He also sought
testimony from BOG on its delay or conclusions in this matter.
2:47:36 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced HB 40 was held over with public
testimony open.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB040 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB 40 support.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB040 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB040 Summary of changes.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB040 Supporting Documents 1.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB040 CS ver U.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| hb040 fiscal note 2 vers D.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| hb040 fiscal note 3 vers D.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| hb040 fiscal note 1 vers D.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |
| HB 006 Josephson Amendment 1.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Josephson Amendment 3.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Josephson Amendment 2.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Josephson Amendment 4.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Josephson Amendment 5.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Rauscher Amendment 1.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Rauscher Amendment 2.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 006 Rauscher amendment 3.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| hb040 fiscal note 4 vers U.pdf |
HRES 2/6/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 40 |